(Death bed interview conducted by the late Bill Fry. Ron died shortly after)
Audio available from John Paige P.O. Box 30 Serpentine 3517, Victoria, Australia
Bill Fry: okay, the recorder's on right now, so you can go ahead and just basically tell me what happened.
Ron Wyatt: Oh, okay. Well, on the excavation there, that, you know, for the ark of the covenant, primarily I was interested in just the ark of the covenant. However, when I did the excavation down the cliff face, I ran into cut-outs and we ran into crossholes, and the bottom of this ancient quarry that showed that this was a crucifixion and execution spot. The Romans crucified people there, of course. The Jews, because of some of their special arrangements with the Romans, they basically stoned people there and beat them as examples, that's what took place there. Anyway, once we found that place, I knew that, well, basically, that I needed to get inside that escarpment, because there were several indications that it was just a system of tunnels and chambers, and that I needed to, basically, just go chamber by chamber, tunnel by tunnel, and whatever, systematically go through there, until I found the ark of the covenant, or until I didn't find it. And so, anyway, we found it on January 6th, 1982 at approximately 2 o'clock in the afternoon.
And so, when I found it, it was in a situation that I had not anticipated or expected, that was that it was in a chamber that was totally filled with what appeared to be debris. And what turned out to be a bunch of materials of furnishings of the first temple, covered first by animal skins, then that covered by boards, and then these covered by stone, just whatever they could get their hands on, looked like. It looked like it had been done in a hurry, looked like they just grabbed everything, whatever they could get to fill the place, and I was still a little fuzzy on why that would be done, but I don't see that I need to know everything. When God does something I just know it's done perfectly, so. On the occasion of my fourth visit into the area, I was gonna make another attempt at getting some video footage.
Bill Fry: Get some what?
RW: I was going to make an attempt to get some video footage.
Bill: Oh, okay
RW: Up to that time I had not had any success with any kind of reproduction attempt that I made. That included Polaroid cameras, 35 mm cameras, a VHS camera, video system. So anyway, I went into the chamber and lowered myself in there, and of course, there, the thing that became apparent immediately was that the place was totally cleaned. Somebody had done what I had decided that I was going to have to do, and that was to clean every, haul the debris and everything out. And I guess I should say a couple of words here, that the ark of the covenant was not covered in all this debris like everything else was. It was in a separate container, within walls, a stone box. And this extended from the floor, which I didn't know at the time, the dimensions or whatever, but anyway the box extended up to within approximately three inches of the ceiling.
BF: Was it sitting on top of something else?
RW: Well, the fact of the matter was, Bill, that I never did get in there and measure everything, and so I really don't know.
BF: Okay
RW: Looking back on that, I would have had to have been there when the cleanup took place in order to know all of that, and I simply was not there. But anyway, the ark of the covenant, the mercy seat, was set in a manner under the crack that came down, that extended down from the crucifixion site above, so that the blood went on the top of the mercy seat, and then, anyway when it was all cleaned up and situated, positioned, it still appeared to be in that same position even though it was no longer in the box. And there are several things that are rather remarkable about what had happened there: the place was cleaned up, and the ark of the covenant was sitting against the wall at the east end of the cave, and the cave is not perfectly oriented east, west, north, or south, it's just on the eastern end, basically, of that. Behind this is this crystalline wall that emits the colors of the rainbow.
BF: This is the wall behind the ark?
RW: That's correct. It's a vertical, vertical wall.
BF: Now the ark was facing you if you were standing looking at it, is that correct?
RW: Yes, that is correct, at that point in time. And I got a phone call on this that I'll share which was kind of unusual, it's one of the things that made me decide to talk about it, to say something about it. And that is, that I got a phone call from this fellow, and he says, "Ron," he says, "would you describe what the ark of the covenant, what it looked like, to me?" And I said, "Well, I don't do that." And I have a... you know, I just haven't done that. And so, anyway, I said, "Why do you ask?" and he seemed a little distressed with the whole thing, you know, and he said, "Well, I had a dream." and I don't remember if it was the night before I was talking to him, or that day, or, anyway, it hadn't been too long since he had had this dream, and he said, "I've been praying since I heard about the ark of the covenant, that the Lord would let me see what it looked like, I just felt a real burden to see what it looked like," and he said, "I had this dream, and I was in this chamber in this dream," and he said, "The ark of the covenant was right in front of me." basically, and he said, "However, the wall behind the ark of the covenant," and he described it perfectly, you know
BF: Like what you'd seen.
RW: Right. And he said, "I got so distracted by the colors and all the rest of this rainbow, that I did not look and zero in on the ark of the covenant." and he said, "the dream went away without my having had a good look at the ark of the covenant." So that was a bit of a surprise, and an (observant?) one, I might add, that indicated that God, you know, wanted people to, didn't mind people having a description of it, at least, and at least this one fellow. He didn't seem any more unusual or different than anyone else, and there were several other people that have asked. And he seemed to be an honest guy and all of that, and I don't think he could have made that description without having seen it, there's no way it could have happened.
So anyway, I at that point said, "Well, just be grateful that you got to see inside the chamber, because I'll verify that's what it looks like." But then I said, "I guess that I probably ought to do something to give a general idea of what the ark of the covenant looked like. So at the time I decided to get Jim Pinkoski to work me up some (drawings), you know? And so, anyway, back to the experiences, when I got in there, the light, the room has its own light, and I made that inference that it didn't happen until I had gotten inside the chamber and was just standing on the floor of the chamber. I did all my gettin' in in the dark, so when the thing's kind of lighted up, I was really shocked by what I saw, that is the place had been cleaned out, and that there were four people in there. And so basically, I was going to ask, "What are you doing in here?" because I'm the only one I knew of that had permission or the right to be in there, and at that point, I became aware that my physical condition was altered so that I knew I was in the presence of angels, you know, that these were not just people, because I couldn't breathe, I couldn't move, I couldn't talk, couldn't do anything. And so, anyway, at that point, just basically keep in mind that I was very, very ??scorned?? by the whole thing. So the one angel talked to me and briefly said that they had been watching over the ark of the covenant since Moses had put the tables of stone in there, and that God wanted everyone to see this at a particular time. And so, anyway, he told me to set up my, um
BF: your video camera?
RW: yeah, to set that up on a tripod, and which I set up primarily because it had been kind of drummed into my head that "you would've got a better picture if you used a tripod," so anyway, I set this all up and aimed it at the ark of the covenant. At that point I turned it on and went on to the angels went and took the corners of each of the ark, of the mercy seat, and lifted it, and the one angel that talked with me said, "Get the tables of stone out of the ark of the covenant." So I went over and leaned down, and took them out.
BF: Ron, could you speak up? I'm having just a little bit of trouble hearing you.
RW: Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, I leaned in and picked up the tables of stone and backed away, and they lowered the mercy seat back into position. And then I just stood there with the tables of stone, and the angel came and got them, and took them from my hands, and put them on a stone shelf, or ledge, whatever.
BF: Right there next to the wall?
RW: Right, you know it's part of the wall right near the exit.
BF: The original exit?
RW: Yeah.
BF: So that would be, I guess, on the south side?
RW: Uh huh.
BF: Okay
RW: The south side. And so, anyway, the
BF: Now, let me ask you a question here.
RW: Okay
BF: Cause when you told me this before, you know, you told me you took the tables of stone out, and then the angel told you something about the tables of stone.
RW: Yeah, he told me that it had to do with when these were to be shown to the world.
BF: Right
RW: Two things were stated, one that if I was faithful I would have the privilege of sharing this, and the second was that when the mark of the beast law was in force, that shortly after that, was when this would take place.
BF: Okay
RW: And here is a little bit of a conundrum: it wasn't stated as the mark of the beast law, it was stated, "when the Sunday law," but I tell people, and I think it's wiser to tell people that, since it's not lying or deceiving, is that when the mark of the beast law is in force.
BF: Right. But the angel said "Sunday law"?
RW: That's right.
BF: Okay. Well, I'll certainly do it that way.
RW: OKay. And so...
BF: Now, if I remember correctly, at that point you said, I don't, you didn't know what to do with the tables of stone, because you were holding them.
RW: Well, I didn't, what the thing I didn't know what to do with was later, was after I had taken the video back to my room and checked it to make sure that I had the you know, video.
BF: Yeah
RW: I didn't know what to do with that. So I went back to the cave to ask the angel what I should do with that, and he said I should put it on the tables of stone.
BF: Right on the shelf
RW: Yeah, and on top of the tables of stone, they were both there.
BF: And as far as you know, that's where they are today.
RW: That's right, as far as I know.
BF: Okay. Now, did the angel indicate any kind of sign that you would be given other than the mark of the beast law?
RW: Uh, no.
BF: Okay. Okay, I kind of got you off track, okay, after he took the tables of stone and put them on the niche near the original exit, I kind of interrupted you there. What happened after that?
RW: At that point I left through the old entrance.
BF: The original entrance?
RW: Right
BF: And was that the first time you had been through it?
RW: That was the first time I had been through it. BF: So that's how you ended up finding that. RW: Uh huh. BF: Okay, they apparently had cleaned that out, too. RW: Well, it had, they had cleaned that one out, yeah. I had done some work prior to this, but my work, uh, apparently, well, just to be perfectly honest, this whole system, if they want you to see and get through, it's easy, you know, quick and easy. And if they don't, you couldn't find it to save your life, or I couldn't. BF: Oh really? RW: Yeah BF: So it's not just as simple as walking through a tunnel? RW: No, it's not. And I know that sounds a little science fiction-ish, but BF: Well, that's the nature of caves and tunnels, if you've been in them before. RW: It's also the nature of if God wants you to see something or not. BF: Exactly. RW: And so, as far as I know, I'm the only one that has been in there, but I'm not there all the time, so I really don't know about this. But I don't know for a fact that nobody else has been in there. BF: Right RW: Now there's some, several people that have lost their lives, directly or indirectly, in an attempt to either move or prevent the continuation of the work on the ark of the covenant. BF: Right RW: Alright, now I do not want to get into details on that. BF: OKay RW: For the simple reason that, and I think you probably know this, that the Bishop of the angels of the church, who is basically the head of the Garden Tomb died within a month of telling me that I couldn't excavate out there anymore. BF: And that was shortly after Reverend White retired. RW: Um, yeah. And so, anyway, there's a whole bunch of people that, you know I didn't say that, I've never said that he died because of that to anybody, I didn't verbalize it. BF: It was just a matter of fact. RW: I've verbalized that there have been people that have died, and they've put two and two together because, you know, working there, they were giving orders to me not to be able to do anything anymore, and God rescinded that, they all died, so of course, they put all that together. BF: I don't know that it's really necessary to address that aspect of it, because nobody's asking about that part. RW: I think we ought to just skip that. BF: The only other thing that would relate to anything happening in the chamber and that type of thing is back when those six people got killed trying to get in there to the ark and move it. RW: Yeah, and this is why I saw I had rather not BF: Okay. Because I know you told me that story, but, okay, that's fine if you don't want to go into that. RW: Well, the situation is that if we get on the page, web page, with a bunch of stuff, at some point some of the people that are keeping an eye on me, and they might not like the direction I'm taking or something. So I figure that I would just lump it into a statement that there have been those that have lost their lives, directly or indirectly, and just let it go at that. BF: Okay. Can I just ask you one thing on a personal note, and this won't be any part of what we're talking about doing here, who was it that initiated those men going in there trying to move that thing, do you know? RW: I didn't ask. BF: OKay RW: The idea was that it's in occupied territory, they wanted to get it into unoccupied territory, and ordinarily, I'm all for that. Because I sure don't want Yasser Arafat ending up with it. BF: Right RW: But I know he isn't gonna. BF: Right, it's not really an issue. RW: Right, but that was what I was given to be the reason, but as to who made that decision, well you know, I didn't ask. BF: Right. Are the golden poles still either on or around the ark? RW: Well, they are not in their slots anymore. BF: But they are in the chamber? RW: Right. They are in the chamber. The impression I got, or I may have gotten is, well, I came out of there with, I think, a lot more information in my head than was verbalized by the angel. I don't know if that makes any sense to you or not. BF: Yeah, I think so. RW: And so the bottom line is that I think the ark of the covenant is fulfilling its final destiny and that is to prove to the entire universe that God's Son actually gave His life, you know, to redeem the human family. And that proof will stay throughout eternity. BF: Okay. Anything else you want to add? RW: I think that's about it, Bill. BF: Okay. Ron, I appreciate it. RW: I appreciate you looking after these things, because you know, I have to have this pain medicine, and it grogs me a bit.. and it's nice to have someone that can help me get these things across so that they won't be misstated or whatever. BF: You know we'll do everything we can. Uh, listen, I'm probably not going to get a chance to work on this until after I get back from the meeting in New Orleans. RW: Oh, okay BF: Because I'm leaving tomorrow, and I've still got some things to do around here relative to getting ready for Sabbath and for the trip. So I probably won't get to work on it until early next week. But I'll be back in touch with you and email you a copy before we post anything. RW: Okay, that'll be great. BF: If you would, and I've already talked to Mary Nell about this, please pray for me in this meeting, because I really think the Lord's presenting an opportunity here. There's going to be a large number of people there. RW: OKay, alright, we sure will. BF: Thanks so much, Ron, and take care, and know that I and many, many others are still praying for you. RW: I appreciate that very kindly, I really do, and I can tell that that's happening. And I just want you know I appreciate you, Bill. BF: Thank you, Ron, and we appreciate and love you. Let me ask you before I go, did you get that newspaper with Ross just exactly the way you wanted it? RW: Well, we got it pretty close. Mary Nell learned pretty well how to do what he does. And we got it quite close, or closer, with just a few little typos, and I'm going over that sheet by sheet. So we were thinking about maybe getting some copies printed up for handing out down at the meeting. BF: Oh, no, there's no time to do that now. But I'm looking down the road a bit. RW: Well, it shouldn't be very long. We should be by the end of next week, have it ready to be printed, I guess. BF: Oh, really? That quick? RW: I think so. BF: That would be great, it would be great. Okay, well, Ron, we're gonna let you know, 'cause I know you're tired. If there's anything I can do for you, or Mary Nell, give me a call, and we'll do what we can. RW: Well, we're more or less getting things into a routine. Things keep changing a little bit, anyway, and learning to live with all of this. well, okey dokey, thanks, Bill. BF: Okay, God bless, bye bye.
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